NLOG has definitely morphed into pick me in a way I find absurd as well - an example I saw, a girl who was accused of being a pick me because she stated her favourite author was Tolstoy as if men are just running around begging to date girls who read Tolstoy. I think many women have an aversion to thinking critically or really interrogating the performative acts that society expects (makeup, shaving ect) so to deflect from this they cast those who do as attempting to be ‘not like other girls’ in a disparaging way to make themselves feel better. But linking that with being ‘pick me’ is very ironic
Jami that is both so well said, and SUCH a good example! I think I saw that thread and I wish I'd remembered that specific tweet while writing this. How dare women have personality and interests or gender presentation that does not match that which is catered to the male gaze. Clearly they are just choosing those for men to pick them!
As someone whose username was inspired by this trope, this was so good!! You got it just right: the NLOG trope is actually composed of this weird filtered femininity that isn't truly gender-nonconforming. I think a lot of straight men SAY they want a woman who isn't "girly," but what they mean by that is a woman who still displays traditional femininity but without what they perceive as the "annoying" side effects of it. If a woman feels she has to be thin, she's going to start worrying about what she eats. If a woman feels she has to look perfect at all times, she's going to be anxious about getting dirty and feel the need to touch up her makeup every five minutes. Most people can't just turn those hangups off when they feel like it!
Also second your endorsement of the Graceling series!
"I think a lot of straight men SAY they want a woman who isn't "girly," but what they mean by that is a woman who still displays traditional femininity but without what they perceive as the "annoying" side effects of it." YES this part! Men don't want a girl who's unfeminine - they want a girl who doesn't need the "effort."
heck yeah is this correct! they want the beauty, but they want it natural, and without the hours sitting behind a mirror, or doesn't talk to them about "girly" things like makeup or clothing (most of the time)
Well said. A couple thoughts: I personally love wearing dresses and occasional makeup but am also just as quickly to tire of the “girly-girl” conversation about reality stars and face serums. I want the deep goodness of what’s feminine, too: patience, wisdom, gentleness, nurturance, discernment.
There is a unique beauty women bring to the world in feminine attributes, but that should not be all we bring. Let us make the WORLD a better place; let our heroines do the same. So long as both we real women and the fictional heroines we write hold that value, I think we’ll do okay.
none of the traits you listed are necessarily “feminine” traits. all the best feminine and masculine traits are traits everyone should have at least some of. all the rest is noise.
This is so true! It reminds me of how everyone tried to convince us that Jennifer Lawrence existed outside the bounds of traditional feminity -- when she was blonde and white and thin. She was probably picked because she was threateningly non-threatening. But they still ragged on her.
All this, only to have her "ugly, butch" character in the hunger games turn into a trad wifes wet dream in the end.
Weirdly enough, as the mother of all boys, I have never heard any of my sons or their male friends make any distinction between girls, except to refer to some as « high maintenance », which had nothing to do with their outward appearance, their choice of clothing, or their hairstyle, but rather with their insecurities which required constant reassurance. This entire piece can be boiled down to the insecurities of women as a whole, especially among teenagers as they grow and mature into their bodies.
I recall my own high school years in the 80’s when I couldn’t walk into a bathroom that didn’t have a hovering cloud of Aquanet. I secretly longed for the Farrah Fawcett hair, the leather skirt, and the dangling chains that the other girls wore… and so I woke up one day and spent hours doing my hair… only to realize that I hated every minute of the process, the « look » I desired was not worth the time it took. I am still like that, impatient with the beauty ritual that some women love. That doesn’t make them wrong or shallow, the world needs beauty. Nor does it make me unkempt if my nails are broken and my hands are gnarled from working in the garden. Women are much more judgmental of each other and of each other’s choices, looks, and personality than men are. The NLOG trope really speaks to the hatred and jealousy women feel towards other women, the most misogynist group, I would say, is usually a group of women talking about other women.
Thank you for this. I always used to say 'I'm not a very good girl'. I don't do girl things. It took a long time for me to think about how stupid that was. I am a girl, and I do whatever kinda shit I want to. That doesn't diminish my girlness. When I read the Graceling, the part that ripped my heart out was how the main character didn't decide to settle down or even near the person she had feelings for. I remember thinking how brilliant that was, but I was devastated at the same time. I may need to reread it.
I don't read YA and nobody asked me BUT. I think there's a female social psychology thing (phenomenon? that seems too dramatic) that makes individual women feel like we are rebelling against some other subgroup of women. The women who do put work into their beauty presentation speak as if they are rebelling against some dowdy pseudolesbian anti-beauty norm. The unshaven, unmade up "potatoes" (who I must count myself amongst) feel like they're rebelling against a 13 step skin care, botox / filler, Sephora coated, waxed and oiled majority. For a lot of women there's this inner sense of "I'm different from them" that they cling to for dear life. I don't exactly know why. Maybe its women's tendency to form social groups that are consensus or "sameness" based. Its one of those little quirks about women that makes me glad to be one.
Another character in this realm is Kerowyn in By The Sword by Mercedes Lackey, which I read in my early teens and just re-read in my early 40s. It’s eye-opening to revisit something and see a root of ideas you’ve held onto your whole life…I was always a tomboy as a kid and remember being so happy to encounter this woman who cared about using her skills in ways that mattered instead of getting married and having to put them away to appear like an appropriate wife.
NLOG has definitely morphed into pick me in a way I find absurd as well - an example I saw, a girl who was accused of being a pick me because she stated her favourite author was Tolstoy as if men are just running around begging to date girls who read Tolstoy. I think many women have an aversion to thinking critically or really interrogating the performative acts that society expects (makeup, shaving ect) so to deflect from this they cast those who do as attempting to be ‘not like other girls’ in a disparaging way to make themselves feel better. But linking that with being ‘pick me’ is very ironic
Jami that is both so well said, and SUCH a good example! I think I saw that thread and I wish I'd remembered that specific tweet while writing this. How dare women have personality and interests or gender presentation that does not match that which is catered to the male gaze. Clearly they are just choosing those for men to pick them!
Anyway, just ordered Graceling to read to my kids! 🤩 Thanks!!
SOOOOOO WELL SAID
you (and 17 year old you) are so brilliant!
also this is my plea to all women to stop shaving your underarms 🙏 it is so freeing I promise
you just want me personally to stop shaving my armpits (I'm sorry babe it's not personal I promise)
okay I can want this for you personally AND for all women ❤️ I contain multitudes
As someone whose username was inspired by this trope, this was so good!! You got it just right: the NLOG trope is actually composed of this weird filtered femininity that isn't truly gender-nonconforming. I think a lot of straight men SAY they want a woman who isn't "girly," but what they mean by that is a woman who still displays traditional femininity but without what they perceive as the "annoying" side effects of it. If a woman feels she has to be thin, she's going to start worrying about what she eats. If a woman feels she has to look perfect at all times, she's going to be anxious about getting dirty and feel the need to touch up her makeup every five minutes. Most people can't just turn those hangups off when they feel like it!
Also second your endorsement of the Graceling series!
"I think a lot of straight men SAY they want a woman who isn't "girly," but what they mean by that is a woman who still displays traditional femininity but without what they perceive as the "annoying" side effects of it." YES this part! Men don't want a girl who's unfeminine - they want a girl who doesn't need the "effort."
heck yeah is this correct! they want the beauty, but they want it natural, and without the hours sitting behind a mirror, or doesn't talk to them about "girly" things like makeup or clothing (most of the time)
Well said. A couple thoughts: I personally love wearing dresses and occasional makeup but am also just as quickly to tire of the “girly-girl” conversation about reality stars and face serums. I want the deep goodness of what’s feminine, too: patience, wisdom, gentleness, nurturance, discernment.
There is a unique beauty women bring to the world in feminine attributes, but that should not be all we bring. Let us make the WORLD a better place; let our heroines do the same. So long as both we real women and the fictional heroines we write hold that value, I think we’ll do okay.
none of the traits you listed are necessarily “feminine” traits. all the best feminine and masculine traits are traits everyone should have at least some of. all the rest is noise.
This is so true! It reminds me of how everyone tried to convince us that Jennifer Lawrence existed outside the bounds of traditional feminity -- when she was blonde and white and thin. She was probably picked because she was threateningly non-threatening. But they still ragged on her.
All this, only to have her "ugly, butch" character in the hunger games turn into a trad wifes wet dream in the end.
Weirdly enough, as the mother of all boys, I have never heard any of my sons or their male friends make any distinction between girls, except to refer to some as « high maintenance », which had nothing to do with their outward appearance, their choice of clothing, or their hairstyle, but rather with their insecurities which required constant reassurance. This entire piece can be boiled down to the insecurities of women as a whole, especially among teenagers as they grow and mature into their bodies.
I recall my own high school years in the 80’s when I couldn’t walk into a bathroom that didn’t have a hovering cloud of Aquanet. I secretly longed for the Farrah Fawcett hair, the leather skirt, and the dangling chains that the other girls wore… and so I woke up one day and spent hours doing my hair… only to realize that I hated every minute of the process, the « look » I desired was not worth the time it took. I am still like that, impatient with the beauty ritual that some women love. That doesn’t make them wrong or shallow, the world needs beauty. Nor does it make me unkempt if my nails are broken and my hands are gnarled from working in the garden. Women are much more judgmental of each other and of each other’s choices, looks, and personality than men are. The NLOG trope really speaks to the hatred and jealousy women feel towards other women, the most misogynist group, I would say, is usually a group of women talking about other women.
Thank you for this. I always used to say 'I'm not a very good girl'. I don't do girl things. It took a long time for me to think about how stupid that was. I am a girl, and I do whatever kinda shit I want to. That doesn't diminish my girlness. When I read the Graceling, the part that ripped my heart out was how the main character didn't decide to settle down or even near the person she had feelings for. I remember thinking how brilliant that was, but I was devastated at the same time. I may need to reread it.
I don't read YA and nobody asked me BUT. I think there's a female social psychology thing (phenomenon? that seems too dramatic) that makes individual women feel like we are rebelling against some other subgroup of women. The women who do put work into their beauty presentation speak as if they are rebelling against some dowdy pseudolesbian anti-beauty norm. The unshaven, unmade up "potatoes" (who I must count myself amongst) feel like they're rebelling against a 13 step skin care, botox / filler, Sephora coated, waxed and oiled majority. For a lot of women there's this inner sense of "I'm different from them" that they cling to for dear life. I don't exactly know why. Maybe its women's tendency to form social groups that are consensus or "sameness" based. Its one of those little quirks about women that makes me glad to be one.
I loved the series, exactly because they had such a diverse and vivid range of characters
Another character in this realm is Kerowyn in By The Sword by Mercedes Lackey, which I read in my early teens and just re-read in my early 40s. It’s eye-opening to revisit something and see a root of ideas you’ve held onto your whole life…I was always a tomboy as a kid and remember being so happy to encounter this woman who cared about using her skills in ways that mattered instead of getting married and having to put them away to appear like an appropriate wife.